Tuesday, August 5, 2008
Generation Kill Question #1
Evan Riley claims to be writing his book not just as a chronicle of the initial stages of the Iraq war, but also as a description of today's youth. How would you characterize your generation (ages15-25)? What about the younger soldiers in this book do you feel reflects accurately the characteristics of your generation (those 18-19 year olds, who are now 21-22, are your generation!)? What about them do you think is atypical of your generation? This is a very open question, but one that requires reflection to answer well...
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24 comments:
I believe that our generation does not fit into a category. I believe that our generation is different than the soldiers in Generation Kill because they are going through very different things than any of us have. No one in my age group who has lived in America their whole lives as I have has ever fought in a war. We are not old enough to. I characterize my generation by age and circumstances. So anyone who is 16 years old and goes to highschool i would consider to be in my generation.
Evan Riley claims to be writing his book about todays youth, if this is true I believe that his veiws on todays youth are very far from the truth. Maybe if most youths were put in the same positions as the soldiers in the book we may react in similar ways, but it is unrealistic to even think that way because most of the people in my generation will never be in a war. I think that the soldiers in the book are sort of in their own group because their experiences growing up fighting are going to be very different from a normal teen going into college. That is what makes them different than most people in their generation.
Adding to first post-
I also feel that most people in my generation dislike the Iraq war because we feel like it is a pointless war. That is because almost everywhere you look people are critizing it. When the soldiers were our age they did not have people saying how pointless of a fight the Iraq war was because nobody knew what it was going to turn out like. Different time periods lead to new and different information so that is another reason why our generations are different.
I think that our generation is similar to the soldiers in Generation kill because of our actions and the way we react. I think what Evan Riley is trying to portray is that our generation gets angry, and emotional easily just like the soldiers. Through out the Generation kill the soldiers are always making jokes about the war, who they killed, who there friends killed, and how the person died. I think the reason they joked so much is because it was there way to deal with the situation they were in. They also got mad when they didn’t get to do the missions that they wanted to do or had to do that they didn’t want to do, and being put on hold. They would constantly whine or argue about the war, and what they though was right and wrong, what they thought they should be doing or trying to do. When reflecting on how the soldiers would react to loosing there missions, or sometimes killing innocent people is the same way I think most high school students would react in situations such as rumors starting, talking behind some ones back, or even stealing some ones boyfriend or girlfriend. We all make jokes to get past things and get mad easily over nothing. They are all very different things and situations but I think that the reactions of the generation are the same even in the different circumstances. At home and school we get mad and angry over things we think are big that really don’t matter and the soldiers get mad about things that are big but maybe not for the reasons they should be. I think that the soldiers going to war in a lot of people’s eyes is unusual but they are grateful that they are there. I think that most people find it unusual because we don’t want to put ourselves in harms way and that a lot of us don’t agree with the war. But most of the soldiers in the war out them selves in harms way, I don’t know anyone in my generation that would willingly go to war, so I think that’s why people find it to be unusual.
I think the way of the youth in Evan Riley’s description relation to a small group of youths, but as new youths are coming in, they view is changing. We have some of the same qualities as did the soldiers, for example many of those youths were pro war and were all for standing tall for America because they thought this would be an easy process, and I can remember youths I was growing up around feeling the same way. They thought the war would end quickly and Americans would once again be on top. I also knew many youths signing up for the army, many of them were care free and would be excited to hold a gun and shoot it, as did the nineteen year old soldier. Those soldiers still maintain a carefree attitude and joked around with each other as people of my generation do now. However after the Iraq war has claimed many lives, and our economy is falling, many youths in my generation are feeling that the war is unnecessary and that we had no business being there in the first place. Many youths in my generation are consumed with different problems and thoughts than those in Generation Kill. Many of us are not so much worried about being captured in battle or being hit with a roadside bomb, but more of how we’re going to get a new pair of shoes or what’s going on at school, but don’t get me wrong I’m not downing the generation that I am part of, but the truth is we’re facing different realities than that of the soldiers.
Sam I agree with both of you. I agree with that Evan Wrights tries to show the similarities in the emotions that the soldiers have. For example throughout the book there was sarcasm, which I know is big in my generation. There were also the sexual jokes they had, sometimes referring between a man and man. That also is big in our generation, our generations enjoys crude humor. They also faced the challenges of morality, like when one of the soldiers says the chaplain said it is ok to kill as long as you don’t enjoy it a soldier said that he did. Many had trouble deciding if what they were doing was truly wrong or just part of the job. Our generation seems to also struggle with morality and the standards of what is deemed acceptable changes constantly. Lastly, the main thing I think we have in common with the soldiers is the belief in loyalty. They looked up to their Lt. even though he didn’t have all the power but he was a people’s man, and he was there. In our generation I believe good friends are hard to find and whenever someone finds one they try to uphold the loyalty and respect between them. The bond like the soldiers had, where one was willing to kill 100 civilians versus his brother and a soldier, shows the bond, I’m not saying I agree with all the killing but that depicts how strong the bond is. There are youths in my generation, who, like the soldiers understand the loyalty between two people.
I fully agree with Paul's addition about how different our generation's view of the war really is. The war is represented to us as an excuse to go chase oil led by an inept president who can't pronounce the word nuclear correctly let alone run a country. Despite whether or not the media’s representation of the war and our president is correct, our generation’s support for this war and the president is seemingly non-existent when compared to the zeal of the generation enlisting immediately after 9/11. As demonstrated by the graph at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/custom/2006/02/02/CU2006020201345.html, Bush had a 90% approval rating in October of 2001 but fast forward by about seven years and that 90% approval rating has dropped to a measly 28% in July of 2008. I just don’t think our generation is willing to take up arms in support of a highly criticized war with such questionable motives. However, if a war erupted with a clear cut good vs. evil scheme similar to that of World War II where our generation’s participation would be necessary, I don’t think we would have a problem picking up a rifle instead of our cell phones in order to protect our country.
Has anyone noticed how at the beginning of their time in Iraq most of the soldiers felt that the war would be over soon. When Evan White is leaving Baghdad at the end of the book he says that he thinks the war will last another month at most. I think this is where the frustration comes from. A war that even the soldiers thought should have been done right after it started has lasted almost 5 and 1/2 years.
The soldiers in Generation kill seemingly representing our generation, however they are different than our generation who has never experienced the fatal war. In the book, soldiers are revealed as strong and fierce who are trained for murdering. Although they are portrayed as normal people, make jokes with each other and play games, they are totally different than our generation. They are cold hearted; go through harsh trainings everyday in rigorous environment. They think and react differently compare to our generation. They do not have fear and too courageous for this generation. Basically, they are more mature than our generation, both physically and mentally, in way of handling situation such as in war. They do not led by their own rages but rather by the orders that their commander, acting consciously. They do argue about the war and having problems with moral issues, but still deal with them in proper way which I consider our generation cannot. I do not think our generation can handle those harsh trainings. Also, they cannot handle their friend’s death as well as those soldiers in book do. I characterize our generation as irresponsible, incompetent, and immature. I consider them as weak, disobedient and lacking in ability to survive by themselves such as in a war. They still needs the guidance of their parents and require attitudinal teaching of adults. Compare to soldiers, who have experienced all the emotions heaven through hell, our generation is pathetically anemic. Because of brutal surroundings, soldiers cannot represent our generation.
Paul/Mimi-
I think that you are right on about a lot of people feeling that the war is unnecessary and that we had no business being there in the first place. that is what a lot of the people in our generation think.
I think that it is extremely hard to properly categorize our generation, due to the fact that our generation is constantly trying to differ from the norm. I think that one of the things that we have in common about this war is that we are all confused about our feelings on it. Especially those of us who are in the younger faction of our generation, after all most of us were pre-teens when the Iraq war was in its early stages. Many youths have been around elders who tried to force their political beliefs on them, which puts an incredible burden on the youth becuase then they are not able to think for themselves. Fortunately, for most of those in our generation this has not happened.
The one thing that most of our generation has in common is that when we have found our feelings on certain matters and when we realize what we do believe, we are willing to stand up for those feelings and beliefs. Many people disagree with the war, but instead of being passive about it, or adjusting their beliefs to satisfy the majority, they are willing to try and end the war. This passion in our generation for change has been shown in the upward trend of youth voting, this year's projected youth voter turnout is extremely high.
I think that this is shown in Generation Kill, becuase there were many young soldiers who wanted to show how much they loved their country, and they decided to fight in the war instead of standing by and doing nothing.
Paul- I agree with your addition. It was hard to see what was going to happen with the Iraq war, and it is still hard to see what is going to happen with it. But I do think that is why many people think that the war was and still is pointless, becuase they feel as if the war is not progressing or creating any progress. All that it is doing is causing grief for those who are fighting in the war or have loved ones fighting, and fear for those who are living in or near war zones. I understand what you mean when you say that "different time periods lead to new and different information" but I believe that the war should not have been started until we were sure how it was going to turnout or how it was going to affect the nations involved. I do understand that occassionally in situations like this chances have to be taken, but I think that with something such as starting a war it's not right to just take a chance or make a decision on a whim.
I couldn’t give one adjective to characterize my generation. However, there are many things about my generation that make it different from those in the past. My generation has grown up with and embraces technological advances. We are a generation of immediate access to everything. We have the Internet to find facts quickly and computers and calculators to do our organization and calculations for us. Cell phones and websites like facebook and myspace allow us to be in contact with our friends 24/7. Also with these electronics people of my generation have grown-up multitasking. My generation is very pressured. We are expected to get As and Bs in school, achieve in extra curricular activities, do well on the SATs and get into good colleges.
The key similarity between the soldiers and my generation is our use of technology for entertainment. When the soldiers go to war, they are not allowed to take any electronics, "they are Americans unplugged" (p21). This means all they have to do is talk to each other, read and play cards. The soldiers also playfully fight to stay in shape. This is atypical of my generation. A major difference for some of the soldiers is their background. Many of them were "former gang bangers, a sprinkle of born-again Christians and quite a few guys who before entering the Corps were daily dope smokers" (p 5). "Not a whole lot was expected of this generation other than the hope that those in it would squeak through high school without pulling too many more mass shootings in the manner of columbine" (p 5). This description of my generation is distinctly difference from how I view my generation.
No generation is a like; they are all different and have somehow affected the world regardless of it being a small happening, or if it was a great battle. Every generation is looked down upon and judged when they’re our age. The generation right above it doesn’t usually care for their music, clothes, or beliefs. Our generation accepts many ideas more so than maybe our grandparent’s generation. WE will probably at some point in our lives, look down on the next generation or the generation after that. Human beings tend to not like change, so after living half your life in one way, suddenly everything changes and the “pop culture” we once had, is now considered old. Our music being played on the oldies stations, our clothing styles being called vintage, and our daily events when we were younger suddenly become history! The young soldiers in this book do perhaps represent some or even most of our fellow teenage Americans and their beliefs. Everyone thought that the Iraq “war” would be a get in, win, get out event. Instead, five years later, we are still trying to think of ways to get out. TO me it seems more like an occupation than a war. We haven’t won, but we certainly haven’t lost. I think the soldiers in this book share this belief when they think that they will be out of there soon, or once they’re out of there the war would come to a close. In the beginning to me, these soldiers seemed much like a typical 18-19 year-old, but towards the end, they started to mature and become adults. What they have been through isn’t exactly “normal” for someone in my generation. Their normality was easy to see in the beginning when they hadn’t gone through so much and hadn’t had all this experience with war, but now those experiences can set them apart from many others.
I agree with Mimi when she wrote about the loyalty most of our generation holds up. The bond people can share, in this case during war, can be lifesaving, or can just help someone to get through something. In this book, knowing that someone in your troop could (and most likely would) be killed made these soldiers really share a bond of respect and loyalty. They also will have a connection like no other because of what they’re going through. Having to watch each other’s backs, and to trust that someone else is watching yours is something that you can’t just do on a whim. Their Lt. was who they looked up to and highly trusted. He was the man who might be making the decision to make a dangerous move and it might cost you your life, but to be able to place that much trust in someone is simply amazing.
Paul-
I agree with everything you have said in your response. I too believe that we cannot compare out lives to those of the soldiers because our lives are so different. However, i disagree with one thing you said. You said that people in our generation are criticizing the war because we now know it turned out to be a "pointless" war. Although when the soldiers went in to the war there wasn't as much disapproval about the war, some of the soldiers still thought it was a "pointless" war. Evan Wright wrote, "Even though the Commander in Chief tells them they are fighting today in Iraq to protect American freedom, few would be shaken to discover that they might actually be leading a grab for oil. In a way, they almost expect to be lied to" (p 6). This shows that many of the soldiers had a suspicion the war was a lie or a ploy to get oil.
I understand that our generation may be similar to the generation in ‘Generation kill’. However I think, in general, that our generation is different from the book. We obviously do not experience the harsh war like in ‘Generation Kill’. I know that we have an emotion like anger, fear, and sadness similar to soldiers’. Even soldiers have joy and happiness during the war because they are human and want to sublimate their situation and environment to joy by saying jokes or chatting. However it cannot be changed that soldiers are in the war and experience events that we would have never experienced like murdering. Whether sharing experience or not makes huge difference. For example, even in our school, we can feel more into friends who have similar experience. My point is that our generation is different. They own experience that we would never experience. Even if we murdered someone, it is completely different from being in middle of the war. They probably are skilled to live in the forest and brave enough to jump in for saving their comrades. We and soldiers may have common feelings but I think that it does not make us and them same.
Brie
I agree with your comment, ‘war should not have been started until we were sure how it was going to turnout or how it was going to affect the nations involved’. However, sometimes, it is necessary to start something even arguing. For example, the war of Iraq may be seemed a fight for a greed just as Sean said, and it turned out badly. To the US government, the choice of war might be the best one. Nobody knows. My point is that war is sometimes required to solve some problems. It looks evil thing to do and is horrible and worst thing to do, but it gives a lot of change. If we consider the benefit after the war, the war may be the choice that you want.
I would characterize my generation as a bunch of strong-minded people who value their beliefs and others’ right to have beliefs as well. Any look inside a Chapel Hill-Chauncey Hall classroom will surely tell you that our generation is a diverse one with many varying beliefs. If we didn’t accept each others different beliefs it would be difficult to coexist together so we protect everyone’s right to have their own beliefs.
I would say the social interaction and diversity between the young soldiers accurately reflects the characteristics of our generation. For example, the soldiers come from all different walks of life and are still able to form a bond of brotherhood amongst themselves. Also, their sense of humor is similar to our generations where exchanging jokes at each others’ expense is common. I would consider the soldiers atypical from our generation in the sense that we have a much more shielded view of the world than them. These men have done and witnessed numerous gruesome acts which have left them with a much more raw sense than our own. War isn’t something you forget about, it stays with you and these soldiers can never gain back that sort of innocence that we still have.
Every generation is different. Each one gets more and more promiscuous and daring than the previous. I do not believe you can categorize a generation because what if the next shows more characteristics as to what category you placed the previous in?
I do not think it is normal to have young people, who do not even know who they truly are yet, fighting a war. Not only is it wrong to have a person, who's brain is not fully developed, fighting in a war but being in a war where you do not understand why we are even there. I think Riley described the younger soldiers perfectly, explaining how they were excited to stand for something yet at a moment of weakness they freak out. Which, I believe, is the definition for every generation that goes through adolescents.
Riley's description of "todays youth" is in a whole different category than the 15-25 year olds who are not in the war. As an individual I can agree with whom ever might believe that. Bit as a whole a say, everyone, even people not in our generation, are at war, whether it is with themselves or another country.
Rachel-
I agree with your opinion that every generation is different and evolving each time. I consider enviroment that surround generation make distinct difference. Since our generation experience different enviroment as soldiers do, they cannot fit into our generation.
I believe that each generation is different. During the book's generation, they had different mind set, and different thinkings than today. During their time, it was very revolutionizing, for instance, how the old generation accepted Tupac and Marilyn Manson were different than today. And as Paul said, no one knew that Iraq war would still exist today, so there must be difference. During the old generation, they accepted war and they thought it was patriotic to support the war, but today, it is different story. We do not accept war and today's my age is obviously different than last generation.
Paul
I agree with your idea that each generation is different. They did have different environment and different set of minds. So it has to be different generally.
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